Read Ebook: State Trials Political and Social. Volume 2 (of 2) by Stephen Harry Lushington Editor

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He said he was certain of it, but confessed it was a great disappointment that these lords had failed him. I told him, I was not provided with an answer at that time; that he well knew me, and knew the general frame and bent of my spirit. But I told him, I looked upon it as dangerous, and ought to be laid deep, and to be very well weighed and considered of: and did not think it a thing fit to be entered upon, without the concurrence of those lords. He did consent, with much ado, but, says he, you will find they will wave it, and give doubtful and deferring answers, but you will find this a truth.

I went to Moor Park next day, where the Duke of Monmouth was, and told him the great complaint my lord Shaftesbury had made, that he failed him. Says he, I think he is mad; I was so far from giving him any encouragement, that I did tell him from the beginning, and so did my lord Russell, there was nothing to be done by us in the country at that time. I did not then own that I had seen my lord, but spake as if this were brought me by a third person, because he had not given me liberty to tell them where his lodging was. Says I, My lord, I shall be able to give a better account of this in a day or two: Shall I convey it to my lord, that you are willing to give a meeting? Yes, says he, with all my heart. This was the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th of Oct.

I came to town on Saturday, and was carried to him on Monday; and I suppose this was Tuesday the 2nd of October. On Wednesday I think I went to him again and told him I had been with the duke of Monmouth and given him a punctual account of what I had from him; and the duke did absolutely disown any such thing, and told me, he never did give him any encouragement to proceed that way, because the countries were not in a disposition for action, nor could be put in readiness at that time. Says my lord Shaftesbury, It is false: they are afraid to own it. And, says he, I have reason to believe, there is some artificial bargain between his father and him, to save one another: for when I have brought him to action, I could never get him to put on, and therefore I suspect him: and, says he, several honest men in the city have puzzled me, in asking how the duke of Monmouth lived: says he, They puzzled me, and I could not answer the question; for I know he must have his living from the King; and says he, we have different prospects; we are for a Commonwealth and he hath no other design but his own personal interest, and that will not go down with my people now , they are all for a commonwealth: and then, says he, It is to no purpose for me to see him; it will but widen the breach, and I dare not trust him to come hither. Says I, My lord, that's a good one indeed! dare not you trust him, and yet do you send me to him on this errand? Nay, says he, it is because we have had some misunderstanding of late; but I believe he is true enough to the interest. Says I, It is a great unhappiness to take this time to fall out, and I think it is so great a design, that it ought to be undertaken with the greatest strength and coalition in the kingdom. Says he, My friends are now gone so far, that they can't pull their foot back again without going further; for, says he, it hath been communicated to so many that it is impossible to keep it from taking air, and it must go on. Says he, We are not so unprovided as you think for; there are so many men, that you will find as brisk men as any in England. Besides we are to have 1000 or 1500 horse, that are to be drawn by insensible parties into town, that when the insurrection is, shall be able to scour the streets and hinder them from forming their forces against us. My lord, after great inlargement upon this head, and heads of the like nature, I told him I would not leave him thus, and that nothing should satisfy me, but an interview between him and the lords. No, I could not obtain it: but if I would go and tell them what a forwardness he was in, and that, if they would do themselves right, by putting themselves upon correspondent action in their respective places, and where their interest lay, well; otherwise he would go away without them: So I went again to the Duke of Monmouth, I spake to him only . Says I to the duke, This man is mad, and his madness will prove fatal to us all; he hath been in a fright by being in the tower, and carries those fears about him that cloud his understanding. I think his judgment hath deserted him, when he goes about with those strange sanguine hopes that I can't see what should support him in the ground of them.

LORD RUSSELL--My lord, I think I have very hard measure, here is a great deal of evidence by hearsay.

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE--This is nothing against you, I declare it to the jury.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--If you please, my lord, go on in the method of time. This is nothing against you, but it's coming to you, if your lordship will have patience, I assure you.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--About what time was this, when you settled this council?

LORD HOWARD--It would have been proper for me in the next place to tell you that, and I was coming to it. This was about the middle of Jan. last ; for about that time we did meet at Mr. Hambden's house.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--Name those that met.

LORD HOWARD--All the persons I named before; that was the duke of Monmouth, my lord of Essex, my lord Russell, col. Sidney; Mr. Hambden junr., and myself; when we met there, it was presently agreed what their proper province was, which was to have a care of the whole; and therefore it was necessary some general things should fall under our care and conduct which could not possibly be conducted by individual persons. The things that did principally challenge this care, we thought were these: Whether the insurrection was most proper to be begun in London, or in the country, or both at one instant. This stood upon several different reasons: It was said in the country; and I remember the Duke of Monmouth insisted upon it, that it was impossible to oppose a formed, well-methodized and governed force, with a rabble hastily got together; and therefore whatever number could be gathered in the city, would be suppressed quickly, before they could form themselves: therefore it would be better to begin it at such a distance from the town, where they might have an opportunity of forming themselves, and would not be subject to the like panic fear, as in the town, where half an hour would convey the news to those forces that in another half hour would be ready to suppress them.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--You are sure my lord Russell was there?

LORD HOWARD--Yes, sir; I wish I could say he was not.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--Did he sit there as a cypher? What did my lord say?

LORD HOWARD--Every one knows my lord Russell is a person of great judgment, and not very lavish in discourse.

SERJEANT JEFFREYS--But he did consent?

LORD HOWARD--We did not put it to the vote, but it went without contradiction, and I took it that all there gave their consent.

SOLICITOR-GENERAL--The raising of money you speak of, was that put into in any way?

LORD HOWARD--No, but every man was to put themselves upon thinking of such a way, that money might be collected without administering jealousy.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--Were there no persons to undertake for a fund?

LORD HOWARD--No, I think not. However it was but opinion, the thing that was said was jocosely, rather than anything else, that my lord of Essex had dealing in money, and therefore he was thought the most proper person to take care of those things; but this was said rather by way of mirth, than otherwise.

Howard then withdrew to Essex to see after some private affairs; on returning to town he heard that Smith had returned with Sir John Cochram but did not see them. He then went to Bath and had nothing more to do with the conspiracy.

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE--My lord Russell, now if your lordship pleases, is the time for you to ask him any questions.

LORD RUSSELL--The most he hath said of me, my lord, is only hearsay; the two times we met, it was upon no formed design, only to talk of news, and talk of things in general.

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE--But I will tell you what it is he testifies, that comes nearest your lordship, that so you may consider of it, if you will ask any questions. He says after my lord Shaftesbury went off the party concerned with my lord Shaftesbury did think fit to make choice of six persons to carry on the design of an insurrection or rising, as he calls it, in the kingdom; and that to that purpose, choice was made of the Duke of Monmouth, my lord of Essex, your lordship, my lord Howard, colonel Sidney, and Mr. Hambden.

LORD RUSSELL--Pray my lord, not to interrupt you, by what party were they chosen?

LORD HOWARD--It is very true, we were not chosen by community, but did erect ourselves by mutual agreement, one with another, into this society.

LORD RUSSELL--We were people that did meet very often.

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE--Will your lordship please to have any other questions asked of my lord Howard?

LORD RUSSELL--He says it was a formed design, when we met about no such thing.

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE--He says that you did consult among yourselves, about the raising of men, and where the rising should be first, whether in the city of London, or in more foreign parts, that you had several debates concerning it; he does make mention of some of the duke of Monmouth's arguments for its being formed in places from the city; he says you did all agree, not to do anything further in it, till you had considered how to raise money and arms: and to engage the kingdom of Scotland in this business with you, that it was agreed among you that a messenger should be sent into the kingdom of Scotland. Thus far he goes upon his own knowledge, as he saith; what he says after, of sending a messenger, is by report only.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--I beg your pardon, my lord.

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE--It is so, that which he heard concerning the sending of Aaron Smith.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--Will you ask him any questions?

LORD RUSSELL--We met, but there was no debate of any such thing, nor putting anything in method. But my lord Howard is a man that hath a voluble tongue, talks very well, and is full of discourse, and we were delighted to hear him.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--I think your lordship did mention the Campbells?

LORD HOWARD--I did stammer it out, but not without a parenthesis, it was a person of the alliance, and I thought of the name of the Argyles.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--That which I call you to, is to know whether or no, in your managery of this plot, you understand any of the lords were concerned, and which.

MR. WEST--My lord, as to my lord Russell, I never had any conversation with him at all, but that I have heard this, that in the insurrection in November, Mr. Ferguson and colonel Rumsey did tell me that my lord Russell intended to go down and take his post in the West, when Mr. Trenchard had failed them.

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE--What is this?

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--We have proved my lord privy to the consults; now we go about to prove the under-actors did know it.

WEST--They always said my lord Russell was the man they most depended upon, because he was a person looked upon as of great sobriety.

LORD RUSSELL--Can I hinder people from making use of my name? To have this brought to influence the gentlemen of the jury, and inflame them against me, is hard.

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE--As to this, the giving evidence by hearsay will not be evidence; what colonel Rumsey, or Mr Ferguson told Mr. West, is no evidence.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL--It is not evidence to convict a man, if there were not plain evidence before; but it plainly confirms what the other swears: but I think we need no more.

JEFFREYS--We have evidence without it, and will not use anything of garniture; we will leave it as it is, we won't trouble your lordship any further. I think, Mr. Attorney, we have done with our evidence.

The Lord Chief-Justice then recapitulated the evidence given against Lord Russell, dwelling particularly on the traitorous character of Rumsey's message, Russell's privity to Trenchard's rising, the alleged written declaration, and the consultations as to the best method of effecting a rising, and finally called on Lord Russell to make his defence.

LORD RUSSELL--This is tacking of two treasons together; here is one in November by one witness, and then you bring in another with a discourse of my lord Howard, and he says the discourse passed for pleasure.

The Lord Chief-Justice and Jeffreys point out that it has been settled that the two witnesses required in treason may be witnesses to different acts, and that if Lord Russell admits the facts his counsel may be heard on the point of law.

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE--My lord, to hear your counsel concerning this fact, that we cannot do, it was never done, nor will be done. If your lordship doubts whether this fact is treason or not, and desires your counsel may be heard to that, I will do it.

SOLICITOR-GENERAL--Will your lordship please to call any witness to the matter of fact?

LORD RUSSELL--It is very hard a man must lose his life upon hearsay. Colonel Rumsey says he brought a message which I will swear I never heard nor knew of. He does not say he spake to me, or I gave him any answer. Mr. Sheppard remembers no such thing; he was gone to and again. Here is but one witness, and seven months ago.

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